Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (00:05):

Hello, I'm Dr. Bobbi Pritt, a clinical microbiologist and laboratory leader at Mayo Clinic and your host for today's episode. I'm excited to be here today with Mayo Clinic Laboratories CEO and president, Dr. Bill Morice, to get the latest news, and then I'll be speaking with Mary Jo Williamson about leading during times of change. So Bill, welcome back.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (00:26):

Yeah, it's great to be back, as always.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (00:30):

As always. Let's start talking about what's new and noteworthy in clinical diagnostics. And I wanted to talk about the recent article from you in Forbes. It was one that focused on understanding industry disruptors and tips for responding, which is just such an important topic. So, why don't you tell us all a little bit about that and some of the few things that you would recommend doing to stay informed?

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (00:54):

Yeah. Of course now in my current role, I'm in publications that I didn't envision probably when I joined the faculty in 2000. You know, like Forbes. But really my interest in this actually started in my time as a lab director in the lab. So, a couple things as I look back at the arc of my career, which is now pretty long, over a quarter century. But when I was starting in bone marrow diagnostics, chronic myelogenous leukemia, that's when the first targeted therapy, Gleevec, you know, against cerebral kinases came out. Before that, it was interferon. And it changed not just the patients' lives, but what we looked for. All of a sudden, we had to think about things beyond morphology. Up to that time, morphology was still the prime assessment of how someone was responding to the therapies they were getting for CML, and maybe FISH, right?

And so, I was involved in a molecular lab. It was a big disruptor to think about now we're going to use molecular testing to look for low levels of disease, and look where that's gone to today. My main responsibility was running the Flow Cytometry Lab. And that was an area that when I came into the lab as a lab director, the machines could run about four different analytes at the same time. So you could have analyzed the cell in four different ways, as well as some other parameters. All of a sudden, the technologies start to advance both for the chemistry, the antibodies, as well as the machines. It really changed how we had to think about flow cytometry, what you could use it for, how we would run a lab. So, I think in the laboratory, actually, we are sort of at the fulcrum of this disruption, because the laboratory is very much an intersection of technology and health.

And even think about the things we've talked about just in the years we've been doing this podcast in terms of AI. You know, when we started, AI we weren't thinking about before. And so, the challenge now for any leader, and I think for me, I think about it in the context of now diagnostics and trying to help patients get access to Mayo Clinic diagnostics and others on the outside. How do you respond? Because, my gosh, the volume of change and the volume of information around change can be overwhelming.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (02:59):

You know, it's a really great point. I think of all the disruptors, and if we were to go back to our very first podcast during the time of COVID, we weren't really talking about AI that much at all. Now, it comes up regularly, and, and we've moved on to really advanced types of AI and really, really large data sets that these are trained on. Of course, I've seen the same thing with disruptors in microbiology as well. Now, one thing I've always thought about is, how do you tell when something is really truly a trend versus just a little blip on the radar and it's just not going to be a disruptor? It's just a little distractor.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (03:38):

Yes. Well, and I think AI is actually kind of a telling one. And the other challenge that we have, I think, first and foremost, Bobbi, is the way that we receive information. I think about in 2000, it was looking at a journal. It was maybe an industry rep that you would talk to. It was going to a meeting and going to the vendor displays and seeing the talks. Now, there's all this different stuff out there, right? There's social media, there's email, there's TikTok, there's all sorts of ways that people get information. I think it's too much. For me personally, I have a hard time keeping up. And now as I think about where things are going, there's actually information which is really interesting just from the laboratory side about investment and regulation and what does it mean when a company buys another company?

What is that telling us about where things are going with diagnostics? So, I think you look at a variety of different sources, identify the sources that you trust, and really looking at a variety, because each source will have a different perspective. An article in the New England Journal will focus very much on the scientific validation and medical and clinical validation of something. An article in a trade publication might focus more on the potential market or how much this is going to be used. And so, really to look at a variety of trusted sources. And, I personally am starting to use AI actually to go out and summarize. So, I look at them myself. And then you can also, if you see something, use AI to say, "Hey, pull across these various sources and kind of pull together information for me." So, look at a variety of sources because then you can kind of triangulate on truth.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (05:07):

You know, I do the same thing now. I actually have an AI agent that I created, not anything high-tech, but I basically get daily update on what's new in certain areas of the field. You're right, you need to make sure that you have reputable sources, but I really agree with what you said of getting multiple viewpoints, especially if you're trying to decide is something really a trend, again, or just a little distraction.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (05:31):

Yep. And I think that feeds the other side of the equation. Because one thing that I've really learned is valuable as a leader is you want to be a curious observer before you react, right? So, you look at a lot of different pieces of information, you'll find things that interest you, which might help you to think, "Gosh, I should develop my career that way." That's kind of how I got involved in Mayo Clinic Labs. And also, if you're in a leadership position, what you can do then is allow your team to think about what's out there. And to your point, start to calibrate. Is it a major disruptor or not? Oftentimes, there's a lot of hype that comes out and we don't really know. And then you can sort of then decide, thoughtfully, how to respond. And I think the two things that really help with that are, number one, taking your observations and measuring them against a strategy.

So, if you have a plan, it's a lot easier to understand if you should deviate from it or not. And then number two, not take it as an all-or-none thing despite the stampede that might be saying, "This is going to change everything." I think about when AI was announced when I was at Becker's Healthcare and they were saying, "It's going to change everything." And that was four years ago, and it's changed a lot, but it didn't mean we had to run back and reorganize DLMP, where I was chair at the time. It just meant that we probably need to start exploring. And we need to look at these different sources and see where it might fit. It resulted in some great things like the work in your parasitology lab, right? So, you can start to then thoughtfully measure where you might want to explore disruptors and their ability to change things for the positive or negative.

Because one thing I was told by one of the Mayo Clinic trustees a long time ago was, things never move as quickly as you think they are. So, that's the other reason to look at disruptors. You don't want to be a laggard, but you don't want to get overly enamored with any one particular thing either.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (07:08):

Yeah. It's always that question of, are you on the cutting edge, which is sometimes the bleeding edge? But you don't want to be a laggard, and you have to really find the right balance for yourself and your own risk tolerance. Well, that's really helpful. You know, so speaking of disruptors in a different type of disruption, we'll just quickly change to some other things that are in the news these days, which are outbreaks. We've spoken a little bit about Cyclospora. Thankfully, that is winding down. But people have probably been seeing reports of "rabbit fever" in New York, otherwise known as tularemia, and that's a tick-borne disease. It could also be transmitted by handling infected and dead rodents and rabbits and other animals. So, I think it's just one of those things of why it's important to get your good news sources and find out what's going on around you.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (07:59):

Yeah, you do such a great job with your X feed and everything else, but yeah, absolutely right. "Rabbit fever" sounds like it could be a punk rock band in New York as well. But in this case, it's a disease that you don't want to get and be really careful, particularly around rodents for sure. And that's why you can call public health officials and others that will come clean up those things because they protect themselves from those sorts of diseases.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (08:20):

Yeah. And it gets back to the importance of the lab to make the diagnosis so that you can get those reports to public health so they can investigate potential outbreaks.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (08:30):

Exactly.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (08:31):

Well, lots of good things. Hope everyone's staying safe out there and avoiding dead rabbits and ticks and all those other things.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (08:38):

That's right, yes. We're in already the closing month of summer here, which is hard to believe. So, hopefully people are staying healthy and able to enjoy themselves.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (08:45):

Yeah, absolutely. Hope everyone enjoys the rest of their summer. And, Bill, as always, thanks for joining today.

William Morice II, M.D., Ph.D. (08:51):

As always, happy to do so.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (09:02):

Welcome to the deep dive. Today, we're going beyond the headlines with Mary Jo Williamson, Mayo Clinic Laboratories' chief administrative officer, to talk about leading staff through a time of rapid change. Thanks for joining me, Mary Jo.

Mary Jo Williamson (09:16):

Well, it's so great to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (09:19):

It's great to have you. So, you have spent more than 30 years as a healthcare leader. In addition to your current role, you've served as chief administrative officer for both Mayo Clinic in Rochester and the Mayo Clinic Health System. Just very impressive experience. You've also served as the chair of the practice administration. You were a member of Mayo Clinic's Board of Governors and Board of Trustees. So, you have a lot of experience, and we'd love to learn from you. How has leading staff through change evolved during your 30-year career so far?

Mary Jo Williamson (09:52):

Well, Bobbi, it's such a great question. And I think one that leaders are really grappling with throughout multiple industries, but certainly in healthcare. And I would say over my career, the need to pivot and change isn't new. That's really been a constant. If you think back over time, major new developments in healthcare, you know, the introduction of DRGs, if any of you remember that long ago. And challenges like staffing shortages and economic shifts tend to come in cycles and have always really required us to be creative, innovative, adjust, become more efficient. But I think what has really changed in the last few years, as it has in so many industries, it's the pace of change. And how it's such a constant, and how that can become wearing, fatiguing, kind of alienating at times for our teams. I think we've really just got to move beyond viewing change readiness as something tied to major organizational shifts and instead treat it as an ongoing mindset and something that we really have to get our head around and engage with, because I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (11:06):

Yeah, that's a really great point. I don't see it slowing down either. For me, it seemed to really pick up during COVID. I don't know if you experienced that. But you're right. Change has always happened, but now it's just so rapid, and of course, the changes in the field. So with this constant change, how do you keep your teams focused and reduce that feeling of just being completely overwhelmed?

Mary Jo Williamson (11:27):

Yeah, absolutely. Because as you know, in healthcare, discretionary effort is such a significant impact to our patients every day. And so, we as leaders have to create environments where our teams feel they can be successful. And there's some different ways to approach it. And of course, there's no one single bullet, but certainly, be disciplined about what you pursue. Most organizations have an annual planning process. But sometimes the minute the ink is dry, it goes out the window and there's, you know, 25 new initiatives that become all equally top priorities. And that's very difficult for teams to sort through, especially as they're having to learn new skills and incorporate new tools with the development of agentic AI and other things in the industry. I would just say moving quickly doesn't mean acting on every new idea or every tool. That, in fact, often that can dilute the focus and impact of a team and make them feel there's no pathway to success.

And so, I find that by really grounding our priorities and mission, vision, and strategy, you know, you can have a lot of benefit to your business, but from the change perspective, it can also feel a little bit less disruptive and trying to keep focused. Now, certainly we don't live in an ideal world, and there will be changes to priorities and plans throughout a year. But if you can really continue to tie it back to that vision about where you're headed as an organization. And even more importantly, I think for our staff today, the values about who we are. And values don't mean that we don't need to transform. It just means that our core principles really stay focused, like at Mayo, where the needs of the patient really come first. You know, it's how we get there that changes, not what we're trying to accomplish, which is really to deliver answers to patients.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (13:20):

Yeah, those are really important points. And I like what you've said about vision, your values, and then, of course, your strategic plan. Everyone that's listening probably goes through some of this thinking about it, but just staying true to your strategic plan, not throwing it out the window as soon as the ink is dry, and saying, these are the five things that we're really going to focus on this year, not trying to encompass everything. Of course, you have to model this, and you have to gain the trust of the people you're working with. They have to trust you to know that you're not going to just throw the plan out the window. So, in these times of rapid change, trust is just so important. What are some tips you have for our listeners in building that trust?

Mary Jo Williamson (14:01):

Yeah. Isn't it funny how trust just broadly in our society has eroded and how we all have to work together to create, once again, that safe environment where people feel they understand their role, how they can contribute, and how they can make a difference. And it's not easy, because there's just noise coming from every direction, whether it's social media, the 24-hour news cycle, new tool developments, and what that means to them. It can feel very unnerving. But I think most importantly, you know, the basics haven't changed. Number one, you really have to take the time to understand your employees' perspectives and their readiness. Where are they on that curve of transformation? Do they have the skills to get to the next level? Are they willing to engage in upskilling? How do we find places for our teams to be successful? I mean, we have to ask a lot of questions to really break through barriers and understand where your teams are at.

At Mayo Clinic, we often lean heavily on multidisciplinary leadership, and I think that is extremely helpful. You really get a dynamic from so many different perspectives as to how we can work together and deliver, really, excellence each and every day. And, sometimes it's just helpful to get out of your own silo and think more broadly about the team you're working with and how you need to transform to help enable and support other parts of the organization because they're all changing at different paces. They all are kind of reacting to some of the new opportunities in different ways. And that diverse leadership team can really help identify gaps more clearly than any one piece can, and help address them in a more holistic way. So, we don't just get disconnected point solutions or point opportunities. We really continue to bring the best of the team together.

And then, Bobbi, I'd say last but not least, and you're such a great model of this, it's just so important to communicate transparently. You know, when people trust you to be upfront when things aren't going well and you're being honest and straightforward, they're far more likely to trust you when you say something is going to be great and that we should all be running towards the transformation. And I, I think our teams deserve really that transparent communication. And it's something that we all have to work on as leaders.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (16:32):

That's so true. And when things are changing so quickly, you have to be transparent. You have to know what to share with your teams and then try to inspire them and keep focused as well, but communicating with transparency. You know, as a leader, I aim for that. I also try to not only help my staff through change, but try to inspire them proactively to innovate and discover new ways to advance our work. And this gets back to, you know, not just leading from the top, but really as the group and empowering your people. What are your thoughts on that?

Mary Jo Williamson (17:07):

Well, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's one way that we are so tightly aligned. Throughout my career, you just often see the best solutions come from the people who are closest to the work. Now, the trick is, how do you empower them with what's possible because they don't have access to all the information you do. They don't see all the trends that you see. But if you can really work on education and empowerment, I believe that they'll find solutions we would never even dream of in a leadership role. And, it can really help bring their expertise, regardless of what their role is, to the forefront. And, you need that nuanced expertise to really make educated decisions going forward. And so equipping staff with that knowledge to engage with change and with understanding of where the organization's going, I think can have huge benefits to the organization, to the work unit, to the patient we serve.

And also, this is something that I sometimes can run over, but fostering that culture of curiosity is such a powerful tool as a leader. And people who work with me every day know that I can be a hard driver. But at its core, I'm a very curious person. I think it's just remembering to pause, to ask the questions, to really broaden your perspective about what could be possible. Because that curiosity and constant reevaluation, if they can be embedded in the culture, teams will likely be more open to ideas, and I believe that'll lead to stronger problem-solving. It just leads to such a stronger team dynamic and really, so much better outcomes.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (18:55):

I agree. And it's more fun to work with people when you have this environment where you get to think creatively, and they're thinking creatively, and then you can come up with solutions together to the new, changing problems. Well, thank you, Mary Jo, again, for joining us today. It was really great speaking with you, and I learned a lot from you.

Mary Jo Williamson (19:15):

It's always a pleasure, Bobbi.

Bobbi Pritt, M.D. (19:22):

Let's wrap up with the top takeaways to learn even more about the topics we discussed. Dr. Morice and I talked about his recent article in Forbes about tracking and responding to trends and disruptors. And he shared a few tips, but he also included several others in the full article, which you can find in the link in the show notes. We also discussed some recent news about a rare tick-borne illness known as "rabbit fever" in New York, and you can find more resources about tick-borne diseases in general and testing in the show notes. We then went on to have a discussion with Mary Jo Williamson, who joined us for the deep dive, into leading staff during times of rapid change. To learn more, see the show notes for a link to an article on managing change from our outreach team, along with two previous podcasts featuring Mary Jo on leading amid rapid change and aligning investments with your vision and strategy. Thank you for joining us today. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. For our next episode, Dr. Garcia will be back, and we will focus on how growing data capabilities are influencing research and development. I hope you'll join us.